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	<title>Comments on: Bible Study on City Time Redux</title>
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	<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/</link>
	<description>Suburban Mom-Employed-Outside-the-Home Gone Bad</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kiki</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-199029</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-199029</guid>
		<description>I understand where you're coming from, Jonathan.  I am just a firm believer of separation of Church and State.  And I agree, unless all groups can have their "spritual"or "awareness" meetings there (and that includes the pagans, Wiccans, Jews, atheists and Catholics!) no one can have them.  No exceptions.  Especially during business hours--and since all sorts of city business meeting are held down there after business hours, there simply can be no other meetings!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand where you&#8217;re coming from, Jonathan.  I am just a firm believer of separation of Church and State.  And I agree, unless all groups can have their &#8220;spritual&#8221;or &#8220;awareness&#8221; meetings there (and that includes the pagans, Wiccans, Jews, atheists and Catholics!) no one can have them.  No exceptions.  Especially during business hours&#8211;and since all sorts of city business meeting are held down there after business hours, there simply can be no other meetings!</p>
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		<title>By: Bhmhomeboy</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-199000</link>
		<dc:creator>Bhmhomeboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-199000</guid>
		<description>I also don't believe it was appropraite for the Mayor to direct his Department heads to distribute the invitation to their staff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also don&#8217;t believe it was appropraite for the Mayor to direct his Department heads to distribute the invitation to their staff.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198930</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey, I never said Langford was a smart man. I was just debating the Bible Study/Lunch Hour issue.  :) I think the man is a idiot personally. He's left bankruptcy and destruction in his wake everywhere he's been.

Like Kiki was commenting on, the taxpayers money should be going to the school systems or something else worthwhile instead of a stupid dome stadium or the"Olympic" style facilities. No one is going to come here if crime and poverty are allowed to remain and increase in some places.

I'm definitely with you guys on your opinion's of King Larry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I never said Langford was a smart man. I was just debating the Bible Study/Lunch Hour issue.  <img src='http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I think the man is a idiot personally. He&#8217;s left bankruptcy and destruction in his wake everywhere he&#8217;s been.</p>
<p>Like Kiki was commenting on, the taxpayers money should be going to the school systems or something else worthwhile instead of a stupid dome stadium or the&#8221;Olympic&#8221; style facilities. No one is going to come here if crime and poverty are allowed to remain and increase in some places.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely with you guys on your opinion&#8217;s of King Larry.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198927</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198927</guid>
		<description>I don't know Kiki...I think Birmingham city has a real need for a first class Equestrian facility.  Just the other day I was lamenting to my husband that we don't have access to one.  Maybe I should pray about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know Kiki&#8230;I think Birmingham city has a real need for a first class Equestrian facility.  Just the other day I was lamenting to my husband that we don&#8217;t have access to one.  Maybe I should pray about it.</p>
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		<title>By: anna</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198923</link>
		<dc:creator>anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>They have tons of other issues to be studying other than the Bible.  Can y'all say CARAZAY?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They have tons of other issues to be studying other than the Bible.  Can y&#8217;all say CARAZAY?</p>
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		<title>By: Kiki</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198797</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198797</guid>
		<description>Ha!  I just saw on the news that Larry Langfor has now proposed to build a $90 million dollar "Olympic style" facility in 5 Points West-half of which is to be paid for with taxpayer dollars!  He hopes to attract more people to "revitalize" the area!  And school kids will be able to use it too!  How generous of him.  Perhaps the $90 mil would be better spent revitalizing the B'ham City school system--keep the closing schools open and fix the moldering, rotting buildings these children and teachers are sent to school in everyday.  Buy some decent on sight computer equipment (not the third world laptops he suggested for every B'ham city school kids in 2007-dumb!) and new textbooks and desks.  Maybe he's never heard the expression k.i.s.s. (keep it simple stupid).  He is truly nuts if you ask me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha!  I just saw on the news that Larry Langfor has now proposed to build a $90 million dollar &#8220;Olympic style&#8221; facility in 5 Points West-half of which is to be paid for with taxpayer dollars!  He hopes to attract more people to &#8220;revitalize&#8221; the area!  And school kids will be able to use it too!  How generous of him.  Perhaps the $90 mil would be better spent revitalizing the B&#8217;ham City school system&#8211;keep the closing schools open and fix the moldering, rotting buildings these children and teachers are sent to school in everyday.  Buy some decent on sight computer equipment (not the third world laptops he suggested for every B&#8217;ham city school kids in 2007-dumb!) and new textbooks and desks.  Maybe he&#8217;s never heard the expression k.i.s.s. (keep it simple stupid).  He is truly nuts if you ask me.</p>
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		<title>By: Bhmhomeboy</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198768</link>
		<dc:creator>Bhmhomeboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198768</guid>
		<description>Johnathan, I'm not saying City Employees cannot attend Church or anyother religious institution during their lunch hour.  I'm saying they shouldn't be attending a religious service led by their Boss in City Hall on City Time.  They are perfectly welcome to take their Bible Study to the nearest church during their lunch hour.  I'm just afraid they will study the Bible from 11-12 in City Hall then go out to eat from 12-1.  That makes it a 2 hour lunch.   I'm sure they are not going to forego eating all day  in order to pray.  All I'm saying is take it out of City Hall just like Roy Moore had to remove the 10 Commandments Monument form the Supreme Court Building.  Right is right and wrong is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnathan, I&#8217;m not saying City Employees cannot attend Church or anyother religious institution during their lunch hour.  I&#8217;m saying they shouldn&#8217;t be attending a religious service led by their Boss in City Hall on City Time.  They are perfectly welcome to take their Bible Study to the nearest church during their lunch hour.  I&#8217;m just afraid they will study the Bible from 11-12 in City Hall then go out to eat from 12-1.  That makes it a 2 hour lunch.   I&#8217;m sure they are not going to forego eating all day  in order to pray.  All I&#8217;m saying is take it out of City Hall just like Roy Moore had to remove the 10 Commandments Monument form the Supreme Court Building.  Right is right and wrong is wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Del</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198761</link>
		<dc:creator>Del</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198761</guid>
		<description>Jonathan - twenty years and a bit ago, when I worked for an insurance company, I refused to give to UW on principal. My dept supervisor ended up "giving" for me so our department (of two, him &#038; me) could have 100% participation. I thought then and I think now that UW's coercive methods are absolutely disgraceful.

As far as Larry's group, 11:00 sounds a little early in the day for lunch to me, but I suppose it's possible that this is a lunch hour activity. I agree with your point about equality for all, but Kathy's statement that if the boss is leading the study group, you're going to feel undue pressure, is also true. Frankly, I don't care if they're reading the Great Books Series or discussing existentialism and nihilism in there---anything they're doing on the city nickel that isn't city work would piss me off. 

But I don't live in Birmingham.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan - twenty years and a bit ago, when I worked for an insurance company, I refused to give to UW on principal. My dept supervisor ended up &#8220;giving&#8221; for me so our department (of two, him &#038; me) could have 100% participation. I thought then and I think now that UW&#8217;s coercive methods are absolutely disgraceful.</p>
<p>As far as Larry&#8217;s group, 11:00 sounds a little early in the day for lunch to me, but I suppose it&#8217;s possible that this is a lunch hour activity. I agree with your point about equality for all, but Kathy&#8217;s statement that if the boss is leading the study group, you&#8217;re going to feel undue pressure, is also true. Frankly, I don&#8217;t care if they&#8217;re reading the Great Books Series or discussing existentialism and nihilism in there&#8212;anything they&#8217;re doing on the city nickel that isn&#8217;t city work would piss me off. </p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t live in Birmingham.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198751</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198751</guid>
		<description>One other thing - Pressure from supervisors happens every year at every place I've ever worked. It happens during the annual United Way drive. United Way has inserted itself into almost every large corporation and has forced participation by many who don't want to participate.

I am swamped with emails every day during the campaign period saying how I should support the United Way by giving monthly out of my paycheck. My bosses expect it. Will I be judged b/c I don't participate? Are they going to think I just don't care? Will I be passed over for a raise or promotion? Maybe I give lots of money to various charities, I just want to choose where my money goes. Does that matter to them though? No. United Way forces corporations to make their employees give.

At one job, as a condition of my employment I was told I would give a certain percentage to the corporate charity fund each year. That fact was non-negotiable. I in turn, turned down the job. I will not be forced to give to a charity that I don't select.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thing - Pressure from supervisors happens every year at every place I&#8217;ve ever worked. It happens during the annual United Way drive. United Way has inserted itself into almost every large corporation and has forced participation by many who don&#8217;t want to participate.</p>
<p>I am swamped with emails every day during the campaign period saying how I should support the United Way by giving monthly out of my paycheck. My bosses expect it. Will I be judged b/c I don&#8217;t participate? Are they going to think I just don&#8217;t care? Will I be passed over for a raise or promotion? Maybe I give lots of money to various charities, I just want to choose where my money goes. Does that matter to them though? No. United Way forces corporations to make their employees give.</p>
<p>At one job, as a condition of my employment I was told I would give a certain percentage to the corporate charity fund each year. That fact was non-negotiable. I in turn, turned down the job. I will not be forced to give to a charity that I don&#8217;t select.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198750</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/2008/01/29/bible-study-on-city-time-redux/#comment-198750</guid>
		<description>I was going to say in the 1/25/08 posting, but moved my comments here:

@Bhmhomeboy - Paid or not, a lunch hour is still your lunch hour to do with whatever you please. They should be allowed to go do whatever they want to do during their lunch hour - whether it be a Bible Study, going to Synagogue or whatever they desire. If you're honestly saying they shouldn't be allowed to attend a Bible study on their lunch hour, that's ridiculous. If that's unacceptable behavior then we should start monitoring all city worker's lunch hours to make sure it's the appropriate use of taxpayer money. Bottom line - Your lunch hour is your lunch hour.

@Kathy - If what you are saying is true about it NOT being their lunch hour, then I would have to recant my statement. I only assumed this would only be attempted under a lunch hour premise as this is how it's been done at other places.

@MadPatriot - We could only hope for Constitution classes. :)

@Kiki - I agree if we are looking for equality then either A) The chambers should be open to any religious organization for studies and worship or B) No religious organization should be allowed. The latter choice would probably be the better of the two to keep things civil and correct you know? And I totally agree that the whole apartment loft thing was a crock.

I just want equality for all. Sounds cliche', but here's an example. At my current employer I receive invitations to participate in Islam Awareness meetings and GLBT Awareness discussions. However, we are not allowed to have a Christianity Meeting for discussions and awareness. Is that right? Going back to what I said earlier about the use of the Chambers, either allow all groups to have an Awareness Meeting or don't allow any. That seems to be the only fair and logical decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to say in the 1/25/08 posting, but moved my comments here:</p>
<p>@Bhmhomeboy - Paid or not, a lunch hour is still your lunch hour to do with whatever you please. They should be allowed to go do whatever they want to do during their lunch hour - whether it be a Bible Study, going to Synagogue or whatever they desire. If you&#8217;re honestly saying they shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to attend a Bible study on their lunch hour, that&#8217;s ridiculous. If that&#8217;s unacceptable behavior then we should start monitoring all city worker&#8217;s lunch hours to make sure it&#8217;s the appropriate use of taxpayer money. Bottom line - Your lunch hour is your lunch hour.</p>
<p>@Kathy - If what you are saying is true about it NOT being their lunch hour, then I would have to recant my statement. I only assumed this would only be attempted under a lunch hour premise as this is how it&#8217;s been done at other places.</p>
<p>@MadPatriot - We could only hope for Constitution classes. <img src='http://www.queervoice.net/kmcmullen/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Kiki - I agree if we are looking for equality then either A) The chambers should be open to any religious organization for studies and worship or B) No religious organization should be allowed. The latter choice would probably be the better of the two to keep things civil and correct you know? And I totally agree that the whole apartment loft thing was a crock.</p>
<p>I just want equality for all. Sounds cliche&#8217;, but here&#8217;s an example. At my current employer I receive invitations to participate in Islam Awareness meetings and GLBT Awareness discussions. However, we are not allowed to have a Christianity Meeting for discussions and awareness. Is that right? Going back to what I said earlier about the use of the Chambers, either allow all groups to have an Awareness Meeting or don&#8217;t allow any. That seems to be the only fair and logical decision.</p>
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