Moore Back In the Saddle?

Roy Moore has formed a new coalition of conservative political groups dedicated to “restoring” America to some version of a right-wing fundie wet dream.  Oh, wait.  I bet fundies don’t have those.  Or if they do, they punish themselves severely.

I don’t know what party affiliation Roy’s claiming these days — he’s fed up with Republicans as well as Democrats because they don’t share his, um, vision.  He also hasn’t made up his mind about running for President in 2008.  Oh, Roy, please, please run.  You’ll keep the bloggers in business, and if you’re there to peel off the wingnut votes, we’ll be even more likely to elect a Democrat.

UPDATE: Dan and Wheeler weigh in.

28 Responses to “Moore Back In the Saddle?”

  1. Tom Hilton says:

    He could peel off a fair number of the craziest Republicans, especially if he emphasizes immigrant-bashing. There are a whole lot of Republicans who think the party just doesn’t hate brown people enough.

  2. Kathy says:

    Roy seems to have latched onto the need to post the 10 commandments in public buildings and kill TEH GAY in order to keep our children safe. I guess immigrants are okay with him as long as they are straight fundamentalist Christians who think a theocracy would be just hunky dory.

  3. Mad Patriot says:

    No, I think immigrants also have to be white and English-speaking and come here legally to really be okay with him. But he’d probably avoid SAYING that they had to be white.

    But the biggest plank of his platform would be to put more God in government. In his ideal society, we would be governed by Old Testament laws, with gays and adulterers and unruly children being stoned to death. He’s the sort of guy who insists that we need to keep God in the Pledge of Allegiance while complaining about how our society has become immoral, despite the fact that his alleged moral decay all happened AFTER “under God” was put IN the Pledge. Because, you know, everything in America was perfect before those damned liberal hippies screwed it up in the ’60s.

  4. Anker says:

    Sounds like you guys are pretty worried. Why, just a few months ago you were dancin’ in the streets at the “political death” of a man who is willing to stand up for what he belives in yesterday, today and tomorrow. What do you believe in – today?

  5. Bottom Line says:

    Great points, although I am sure Hillary Clinton would be the greatest President ever and would never pander to a political group to get votes. And don’t even think about catching her in a lie, because her morals and character are beyond reproach. (I tried to lay as much sarcasm on this as I could, but in case some of you didn’t get it, I really don’t think Hillary would be the greatest president ever). I also wonder if Ralph Nader would siphon off as much wacko democrat votes as you claim Roy would for the far right? Might be an even wash.

  6. Kathy says:

    Anker, I believe that separating church and state is good for both entities. Today, yesterday, last week, last year, last few decades — and far into the future as well. BL, Ralph Nader is a power-hungry kook, and if you expect me to defend him, you are sadly mistaken. I’m well aware that all politicians pander to get votes. It’s in the job description. However, I’m not interested in having one particular type of Christianity forced down my throat any more than Roy would be interested in having Judaism or Islam or even some other Christian dogma nforced on him. State-sponsored religion could be the death knell of democracy in this country, particularly given the extremist mindset of those who seem to want it most.

  7. Anker says:

    Kathy, who wants a state sponsored religion? I certainly don’t. I want the Constitution followed. If you can show me where The U.S. Constitution says “seperation of church and state” – especially the way you would enforce it and the way this concept, which is not even mentioned in the Constitution, is being “enforced” then I will listen to you. Until then you should read the rest of the establishment clause – you know, the part after the comma!

  8. Del says:

    Gosh Kathy, displaying the Ten Commandments isn’t state-sponsored religion! It’s just, you know, what G-d commands. For everybody, not just people of one religion. You silly-billy.

    Now take your shoes off and get back in that kitchen. If G-d wanted you to have an opinion he would have given you a penis to talk with.

  9. Susan says:

    Anker–well, first there is Article Six, stipulating that there shall be no religous test to hold political office. Then there is the First Amendment, prohibiting “the establishment of religion and protecting the free exercise there of.. . ” If you read Thomas Jefferson’s act for the establishment of religious freedom in Virginia (1779) you will see a pretty good discussion of the individual freedom to worship and think balanced against the compulsion to worship or think.

    Moore likes to tout his own freedoms, but forgets that he is not free to tread upon ours.

  10. Kathy says:

    “Kathy, who wants a state sponsored religion? I certainly don’t.”

    Glad to hear it. Roy’s public statements and legal opinions would indicate that he does. He loves to use the “religion is being removed from the public square” line to stir up the people and raise money. This seems a bit contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ, who suggested that public displays of piety weren’t particularly impressive to God.

    Like it or not, we live in a pluralistic society. Government “acknowledgement” of God inevitably requires choosing one particular understanding of God over all others. Then it’s a pretty easy step to either theocracy or the state-sponsored apathy found in many European countries with official religions. Neither option sounds good to me.

  11. Anker says:

    Kathy said:

    “Government “acknowledgement” of God inevitably requires choosing one particular understanding of God over all others.”

    That’s where your wrong, Kathy. The founders acknowledged God. They wrote about God, they talked about God. It’s evident in their writings both official and their personal writings that without the “many and signal favors” as Washington said in acknoweldging God’s role in “establishing” our govern-ment that it would not have happened.

    They never had a problem with it. Why do you think we cannot acknowlege God and remain true to the Constitution? Washington obviously did.

  12. Kathy says:

    Acknowledge God as an individual all you want. That’s completely appropriate. Insisting that government acknowledge your particular interpretation of the Judeo-Christian God to the exclusion of all others is establishment of a state religion, and that’s what Roy Moore advocates. I know you love the guy, so why don’t you go do some fundraising for him? You won’t find many marks — I mean donors — here.

  13. Anker says:

    How so, Susan?

    BTW the Constitution, which is the law, not the writings of Jefferson, is abundantly clear that we are to, by law, enjoy freedom from govern-ment interference into matters of exercising ones religion. How is the
    govern-ment prohibiting, say, prayer at a public event not violating the Constitution and the action to enforce this interpretation not a violation as well?

    Also, Susan, since you are so all about Article Six, perhaps, since we obviously have no compunction about breaking the 1st Amendment to accommodate so many “interpretations” – why not consider “breaking” Article Six as well? We NEED to consider Muslims unfit to hold public office! They have proven their disdain for Americans and innocents of any nationality and religion by openly murdering over and over and over again!

    Consider this:

    Can a good Muslim be a good American?

    Theologically – no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

    Religiously – no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Koran, 2:256)

    Sculpturally – no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

    Geographically – no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

    Socially – no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

    Politically – no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

    Domestically – no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

    Intellectually – no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

    Philosophically – no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

    Therefore after much study and deliberation…. perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both “good” Muslims and good Americans.

    And if you don’t believe that…take the following little test and REMEMBER THESE FACTS:

    In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
    a. Superman
    b. Jay Lenno
    c. Harry Potter
    d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
    massacred by:
    a. Olga Corbett
    b. Sitting Bull
    c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
    a. Lost Norwegians
    b. Elvis
    c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    During the 1980′s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
    by:
    a. John Dillinger
    b. The King of Sweden
    c. The Boy Scouts
    d Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
    a. A pizza delivery boy
    b. Pee Wee Herman
    c. Geraldo Rivera
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
    American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his
    wheelchair by:
    a. The Smurfs
    b. Davy Jones
    c. The Little Mermaid
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver
    trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
    a. Captain Kidd
    b. Charles Lindberg
    c. Mother Teresa
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
    a. Scooby Doo
    b. The Tooth Fairy
    c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
    a. Richard Simmons
    b. Grandma Moses
    c. Michael Jordan
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
    a. Mr. Rogers
    b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill’ s women problems
    c. The World Wrestling Federation
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to
    take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
    crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed
    by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:
    a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
    b. The Supreme Court of Florida
    c. Mr. Bean
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
    a. Enron
    b. The Lutheran Church
    c. The NFL
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
    a. Bonnie and Clyde
    b. Captain Kangaroo
    c. Billy Graham
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    2004 – Spain Railway bombings:
    Guess who…
    Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    2005 London Railway bombings:
    You get one guess…
    RIGHT! Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and
    40!

    ARE YOU NEXT?

    Call it what you wish…. it’s still the truth.

  14. Anker says:

    Kathy -

    I have a problem with your definition of “establishment.” How is acknowledgement establishment? The simple act of acknowledgement invokes no dogma, no structure, no services, no chants, no offerings, no incense, no professions of faith, no hell-fire and brimstone – no NOTHING that would “establish” any of the trappings of ANY religion! How is acknowledgement establishing a RELIGION?

    Yet, we have paid chaplains in the military and in the U.S. Congress! How is that not “establishment” and acknowledging God, as Washington did and most of the founders did and most everyone else in govern-ment did until just a couple of decades ago, is?

  15. Bottom Line says:

    Hey, I like this Anker character. You have some great points and it is great to finally have someone else have the testes/ovaries to debate with the liberals here. Although I don’t agree with the “We NEED to consider Muslims unfit to hold public office!” statement, you did make many strong points. Especially the how transformation of the establishment clause to include how liberals think it actually says “separation of church and state” in the constitution. Open up some of the other founding father’s literature and you will find many disagreed with Jefferson and thought the judeo-christian theology was the backbone to the constitution. Not to mention that many exaggerated Jefferson’s statements and writings, heck I think I remember the word “creator” being somewhere in the Declaration of Independence. So did Jefferson mean to exclude atheism?
    Also kudos to Kathy for letting us speak our minds here. Other liberals in the blogosphere claim to be open minded but only have a narrow opening for the liberal views. Kathy- You are a great blog host, even if you are misguided politically. That’s enough compliments for now, I don’t want you thinking I am getting soft. By the way, I don’t know much about “Roy” and I agree he sounds like a wacko, and don’t expect me to defend him.
    Finally, all this constitution talk has me wondering why my liberal friends will go to all ends to defend the 1st amendment and take such a literally exaggerated interpretation of the “establishment” cause, but choose to ignore the whole second amendment? I guess “bear arms” must only apply to sleeveless shirts or people that can actually grow weapons like trees bear fruit.

  16. Bottom Line says:

    By the way Anker, some people reading this may take offense to your statement that AQ was behind 911, they subscribe to the Bush conspiracy theory. Which works out really great for logic to follow. The conspiracy goes like this, the governement planned / refused to stop / planted explosives in the WTC to rally Americans behind capitalist dreams of conquest over mideast oil, then invaded Iraq and Afghanistan because we are oil hungry imperialists under the guise of WMD and revenge for the WTC.
    By the way, logic would tell you that a plan of that magnitude would lead you to believe that the government would at least take the effort to “plant” WMD in Iraq to complete the ruse. Ha, Ha, Ha, this is where you are wrong, the government knew someone would uncover the conspiracy and therefore could not plant WMD so it would be harder for the conspiracy theorist to come up with a theory behind the lack of WMD (I call this the Sicilian from the Princess Bride argument). Or you could claim Halliburton, Dick Cheney and his lesbian daughter stockpiled the WMD in a secret lab to control the world and form a capitalist conservative lesbian friendly eutopia.

  17. Kathy says:

    Anker, you are free to express political disagreement here, but you’ve just proven my point with your libel of all Muslims. You criticize my understanding of the establishment clause with one breath and then toss out the sixth amendment prohibition against religious tests for public office with the other. You’re happy for the government to acknowledge God as long as it’s your God, just like Roy.

    BL, thanks for the backhanded compliment, I guess, but please don’t start in on red herring 9/11 conspiracy theories, which you’ve never heard here.

  18. Anna says:

    Kathy, it’s always about “their” God just like it’s always about “their” everything else.

    I just find it extremely amusing (and a tad boring) that somehow Hillary Clinton got thrown into comments about a Roy Moore post. Is she a Senator from the great state of Alabama? Nah? Well, why did she get mentioned, oh wait, I just read who brought that up. No further explanation required.

  19. Susan says:

    Anker,

    The Constitution also says that the Government cannot compel us to believe in one religion, or any religion for that matter. Where to draw the line between my freedom to pray and someone else’s not to, is, of course, the subject of the entire debate. But, here is something else to ponder. The more closely you entertwine government and religion the more you weaken religion. Look at the European countries that have state religions (e.g. France and Britain). When individuals distrust the state they will also distrust the church because they are one and the same. At the opposite end of the spectrum are the islamic states that use the power of the state to force submission to religious doctrine. That force becomes less about religion and more about power and also weakens religion because it is nothing more than a coercive tool of the state.

    As for Article 6 of the US Constitution, I wonder why you have omitted all the crimes and atrocities committed by members of other religions, including Christians, from your list. Surely you understand that Christians, throughout history, have been as prone to human sin as much as Muslims. When you condemn all Muslims simply for being Muslims you are engaging in exactly the same behavior as Muslims who condemn Christians and Jews for their religion. Bitter pill, isn’t it?

  20. Bottom Line says:

    Anna-
    Your powers of insight continue to astound me. Except you forgot the Roy Moore discussion also talked about whether or not he would run for president and how his far right wackoness and how it would might impact an election. Last time I checked Hillary was running for president. Since you didn’t get the connection I am sorry, I will try to draw it out in crayon next time!

  21. Anker says:

    Thanks Bottom Line, however the conspiracy buffs find the “c” word in everything. Example: FDR knew about Pearl Harbor well before the attack. Teddy Roosevelt knew about the U.S.S. Maine before it blew up in Cuba. Huge radio companies, Cox, Clear Channel, Citadel, Cumulus, Crawford, etc. all beginning with “c” just like the word conspiracy. I could go on and on…

    Most of all – thank you Kathy for the opportunity to write a counter opinion on your blog. Many bloggers go into orbit when such raw truth is exposed on their blog and then its “gone in 60 seconds!”

    While we may always disagree on the 1st Amendment, the “libel” list as you called it is all completely factual. Yet, we abhor “racial profiling” and stop little old ladies and old congressmen in our nations airports! Ridiculous! I do not know of another SELF PROCLAIMED ENEMY OF OUR COUNTRY and the rest of the free world that has so directly and openly taken so many innocent, non-combative lives! Shall I post the link to the video beheading of Daniel Pearl in the name of Allah? It’s extremely graphic, but what hurts me the most is Pearl’s last pleadings and then the actual sounds of the Muslim terrorist’s knife going through his throat. I MADE myself watch it. It made me very sick and extremely angry all at once. Even so, I would recommend it to anyone especially if you intend to travel to a Muslim country. I think it needs to be seen and heard. Just like I think, like the country song says, the fall of the twin towers should be shown everyday. It is called know your enemy – and we, at least in this country, not only do not know them, in our arrogance we have blissfully forgotten our enemy!

    I pray no other American or citizen of the world who loves freedom and RESPECTS THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS has to die like Daniel Pearl did or the other beheaded hostages and let’s not forget the nearly 3000 who died on 9/11…and you know all the rest of the attacks on innocents and combatants alike that I mentioned before.

    In WW2 we fire bombed Dresden, Germany and HUNDREDS of other NON-MILITARY targets, er uh, TOWNS in Germany and Japan. We ended up having to use nukes on Japan. WHY? To break the will of THE ENEMY to fight. Sherman did the same thing to Georgia and wanted to make “South Carolina howl” but the march through Georgia proved decisive! Do you know why, Kathy? You should read about it one day. There is a good chance that the carnage, death and mayhem HEAPED upon small southern towns by 120,000 AMERICAN troops had a direct affect on some of your family members – if you care to go back. After all, it was Sherman who most correctly proclaimed that, “War is hell!”

    It is sad to say, but in both examples the ends justified the means. We have either forgotten how to win wars or our leadership is a bunch of pussys! I personally believe it is the latter. Yet we develop marvelous weapons for the war fighter without any intent to use them and we go on to squander the lives of those most dear to us – our sons and daughters. It makes no sense. However, our enemy knows, just like in Vietnam, that we will turn yellow and, in the name of “peace” we will turn tail and RUN sooner or later. They are merely waiting us out. It is already happening in Afghanistan. The Taliban, who forces women to wear berkas and executes them in front of huge crowds at SOCCER GAMES (for God’s sake) for the slightest breech of “Muslim law” are regaining their influence!

    Good thing you don’t wear a burka, Kathy!

    I’ll leave all of you alone now.

    Take care and God (not Allah) bless you all – each and every one!

  22. Jennifer says:

    Wow Anker. Your vision of America makes me want to move to Canada. And hey, they have socialized medicine!

  23. Anker says:

    Uh, Jennifer, should you move to Canada, would that indicate socialism for a socialist?

  24. Bottom Line says:

    Anna- You are still my favorite semi-liberal, Kathy is my favorite liberal.

  25. Anker says:

    OK – now my comments must await “moderation” – I KNEW it! Even though it was my intent to, like McArthur said, “I take my leave of you now and just fade away” however, Mr. or Ms. Moderator, Jennifer’s comment was just too tempting and deserved a snide, parting shot remark because it was snide itself. Jennifer did not attempt to address one single factual point. Just discredit the messenger – a typical reaction to those, especially on the left, who either fear the truth, don’t want to hear the truth or already know the truth and wants it covered up or ignored.

    This will be interesting.

    BTW – I challenge “the moderator” to prove that ANY of the facts which I have simply pointed out about Islam or the “war on terror” is not correct. After spending a lot of time composing those posts “the moderator” should responsibly reply personally to kick me off of this blog…IF they can disprove any of the information posted. Or IF “the moderator” simply wants to be like our “political leadership” and exercise their “right” to censor my future writings in the best tradition of famous leftist, socialists, tyrants, communists, Leninists, Marxist, Imperialists, Nazis, and many others that throughout all history have so prominently done and still do so even to this very day.

    I eagerly await your “judgment!”

    (Boy, I must have really hit a nerve! Good!)

  26. Kathy says:

    “Anker”, you are not being censored. You are free to pay for your own bandwidth and express your opinion all day long. As I mentioned in the Full Disclosure post above, paid (or recently paid) political operatives who want to shill for their bosses can do it own their own dime.

    Congratulations — you have managed to worsen my already poor opinion of Roy Moore. The fact that he would pay a bigot like you to speak for him makes his claims of some superior “morality” even more suspect.

  27. Anker says:

    OK – it looks like my “judgment” by “the moderator” has been not to muzzle my future scribbling on this blog – should there be a future at all. I suppose I should be grateful. However, the reality is that for at least a short time “the moderator” was in charge of whatever I wrote. I suspect that I will now just be ignored in hopes of making my McArthur type exit a reality as well. That’s OK – I know when I’m not welcome.

    However, one last comment from one of our “godless” founders, “A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one.”

    And to provide a little levity, as he always did SO well, Benjamin Franklin also said, “Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

  28. Bottom Line says:

    Anker-
    I am definitely on the conservative side of the house, but here are a couple of points. The whole ban Muslim from service to the country doesn’t fly. Not because of your arguments but because this is a free country with the right to dissent. Just because a “good muslim” may not be an ideal American, I would argue that does not mean he can be an American at all. Your points about why a good muslim can’t be a good American could also apply to why a stupid lazy American can’t be a good American.

    Theologically – no. Lazy and stupid people place their allegiance to excessive amounts of mindless inactivity and over eating. They also like to ride those scooters at Walmart even though they aren’t handicapped.

    Religiously – I actually didn’t see your point on this one and how it was tied to being a bad American so I won’t attempt to debate it.

    Sculpturally – So. Are we talking about the Statue of David here or did you mean scripturally?

    Geographically – no. Lazy people have allegiances to their sofa and TV.

    Socially – no. Lazy and Stupid people usually hang together and don’t want to hang with others and vice versa.

    Politically – no. Lazy people don’t care and don’t vote.

    Domestically – no. Lazy people usually don’t make good parents and therefore further the lazy race and leach off of the rest of society.

    Intellectually – no. Lazy and stupid people are lazy.

    Philosophically – no. Lazyness and Stupidity cannot co-exist with work and intelligence.

    Heck you can even be a communist and live in America. Although I don’t agree with their views or the view of Islamic extremist they can still be if they do it legally (that’s a whole different issue). If you truly believe in your ideas let them stand in the debate arena and let the opposing side stand as well. The Constitution protects the rights of lazy and stupid Americans just as it does different political or religious groups. Seeing that is one of the things you can do as a “Good American”.

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